Discussion:
what to expect a new Bach stradivarius trumpet 180S-43?
(too old to reply)
Jing
2005-02-05 04:43:44 UTC
Permalink
Hi, you all,

My 12 year old son has been playing trumpet for 5 months now. I got him
a really old Bach TR300 from Ebay when he started in last August. He
has been progressing very fast and I think the old trumpet is holding
him back because the third slide does not slide very well. His teacher
recommended Bach Stradivarius 180S-43 medium bore for him. After
searching online for couple weeks I just bought him a new Bach
Stradivarius 180S-43 from Musiciansfriend.com. It has a very good price
for $1429.99 with free shipping and 45 days satisfaction guarantee.

Here is my question. All the pictures I saw online are silver all over,
but when I got the trumpet today it is two toned. It has yellow inside
the bell and silver outside the bell and rest of the body. It also has
a golden water key and golden valve caps, both top and bottom. Is it
the right model for 180S-43? It has series number 610XXX and ML stamped
on the second valve. It also has 43 stamped under the Bach logo and
some real fancy engraving on the bell. What did I really get? Anybody
get the same one as I did? Oh, the invoice stated "180S-43 KC". Is
there any difference between the sliver all over and two toned
trumpets? We will not see the teacher until next week and so far we
could not tell the tone is up to a real Stradivarius or not. My son
thinks it is much better than his old trumpet. I can not really tell
but I think it is not the same sound as his teacher's trumpet, which is
also a 40 year old Bach Stradivarius 43 silver.

When I open the box there is no user's menu except care instruction and
some advertisement about mouthpieces, warrantee form etc. It also comes
with a bottle of valve oil and a cleaning rod, a 7C Bach mouthpiece.
But the golden tone really surprised me a lot and I could not find any
such 180S-43 trumpet online. That is why I am posting the question here
since I read a lot her before I bought. And I know here has a lot
experts can help me.

Thanks in advance and wish you all a happy weekend,

Jing
THE Old Man
2005-02-05 07:15:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jing
Hi, you all,
My 12 year old son has been playing trumpet for 5 months now. I got him
a really old Bach TR300 from Ebay when he started in last August. He
has been progressing very fast and I think the old trumpet is holding
him back because the third slide does not slide very well. His teacher
recommended Bach Stradivarius 180S-43 medium bore for him. After
searching online for couple weeks I just bought him a new Bach
Stradivarius 180S-43 from Musiciansfriend.com. It has a very good price
for $1429.99 with free shipping and 45 days satisfaction guarantee.
Here is my question. All the pictures I saw online are silver all over,
but when I got the trumpet today it is two toned. It has yellow inside
the bell and silver outside the bell and rest of the body. It also has
a golden water key and golden valve caps, both top and bottom. Is it
the right model for 180S-43? It has series number 610XXX and ML stamped
on the second valve. It also has 43 stamped under the Bach logo and
some real fancy engraving on the bell. What did I really get? Anybody
get the same one as I did? Oh, the invoice stated "180S-43 KC". Is
there any difference between the sliver all over and two toned
trumpets? We will not see the teacher until next week and so far we
could not tell the tone is up to a real Stradivarius or not. My son
thinks it is much better than his old trumpet. I can not really tell
but I think it is not the same sound as his teacher's trumpet, which is
also a 40 year old Bach Stradivarius 43 silver.
When I open the box there is no user's menu except care instruction and
some advertisement about mouthpieces, warrantee form etc. It also comes
with a bottle of valve oil and a cleaning rod, a 7C Bach mouthpiece.
But the golden tone really surprised me a lot and I could not find any
such 180S-43 trumpet online. That is why I am posting the question here
since I read a lot her before I bought. And I know here has a lot
experts can help me.
Thanks in advance and wish you all a happy weekend,
Jing
Looking at musiciansfriend.com web site it looks like what you
describe is the 180s-43AS Anniversery model.

Look at :

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bo/search/bigpid/base_id/97663/

They have it listed at $1699.99 and is Product #461796. Does this
number appear on your invoice?
THE Old Man
2005-02-05 07:21:03 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 01:15:37 -0600, THE Old Man
Post by THE Old Man
Looking at musiciansfriend.com web site it looks like what you
describe is the 180s-43AS Anniversery model.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bo/search/bigpid/base_id/97663/
They have it listed at $1699.99 and is Product #461796. Does this
number appear on your invoice?
Forgot: This is what they say about it:

Key of Bb. Lightweight body, .459" medium-large bore, 43 bell, 25LR
(reverse) mouthpipe, Monel valves, silver-plated finish, gold-plated
inside bell, gold-plated trim, anniversary pattern engraving.



There is your gold plated bell and trim.
Double C
2005-02-05 08:33:47 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 01:21:03 -0600, THE Old Man
Post by THE Old Man
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 01:15:37 -0600, THE Old Man
Post by THE Old Man
Looking at musiciansfriend.com web site it looks like what you
describe is the 180s-43AS Anniversery model.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bo/search/bigpid/base_id/97663/
They have it listed at $1699.99 and is Product #461796. Does this
number appear on your invoice?
Key of Bb. Lightweight body, .459" medium-large bore, 43 bell, 25LR
(reverse) mouthpipe, Monel valves, silver-plated finish, gold-plated
inside bell, gold-plated trim, anniversary pattern engraving.
There is your gold plated bell and trim.
I've been playing one of these for about fifteen years now. it's a
beautiful horn, very responsive and with a fine range. It may be a
little bit much of a horn for a 12 year old but if he can handle it
he'll love it, especially with that fancy look. I actually had a
friend who had his euphonium refinished to match it! Pay extra
attention to the finish as it deteriorates easily-mine's in need of
refinishing ( I shudder to think of the cost of that!). Also watch the
little plate on the bell-mine came off a few years ago, went flying,
and has never been heard from since.
Jing
2005-02-05 14:45:32 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for your information. I went to musiciansfriend.com and had a
second look. It does look like the lightweight Stradivarius. What is
the difference between standard weight and light weight body? Which one
the better horn? In tone and easiness to handle. Which one is more
durable? Thanks again,

Jing
Randy Replogle
2005-02-05 15:31:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jing
Hi, you all,
My 12 year old son has been playing trumpet for 5 months now. I got him
a really old Bach TR300 from Ebay when he started in last August. He
has been progressing very fast and I think the old trumpet is holding
him back because the third slide does not slide very well. >
Jing
I would have suggested to recondition the TR300 and use it for a few years
or get a used Strad if you felt the need. That new horn is just too much for
a young child. At least keep it at home. It *will* get damaged at school to
some degree. Don't ask how I know. :(
Randy
Jing
2005-02-05 16:56:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Replogle
I would have suggested to recondition the TR300 and use it for a few years
or get a used Strad if you felt the need. That new horn is just too much for
a young child. At least keep it at home. It *will* get damaged at school to
some degree. Don't ask how I know. :(
Randy
Yes, we will definitely keep the new horn in the house except take it
to contests or solo only. The older horn will still be the horn goes to
school everyday. Anyway it is too fancy for a 12 year old to take to
the beginner's band anyway. I just did not know what did I get and what
is the difference between standard weight and lightweight horns.

Thanks for the reminder for not taking the new horn to school and wish
you a nice weekend,

Jing
EF in FLA
2005-02-05 17:38:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jing
school everyday. Anyway it is too fancy for a 12 year old to take to
the beginner's band anyway. I just did not know what did I get and what
is the difference between standard weight and lightweight horns.
Ya gotta come here before you buy, not after. :)

You're entitled to a refund since they sent you the wrong horn. I'd do
that, and then save yourself some (significant) money by following buying
advice from the folks here.

ef
Carl Tuba
2005-02-06 17:12:23 UTC
Permalink
They sent a better horn anyway. I would warn you that MF/Giardinelli
mail orders a lot of bad horns. I have seen many of them.
catzz66
2005-02-09 00:58:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jing
I just did not know what did I get and what
is the difference between standard weight and lightweight horns.
The difference between standard weight and lightweight horns is the
thickness of the metal in the horn. Lightweight Bach horns have a star
on the bell down below the other engraving.
Carl Tuba
2005-02-06 17:07:52 UTC
Permalink
I had a student that used her BachStradivarius form the day she started
in 5th grade through college (including HS marching band) and didn't
put one dent in it. A truly amazing feat. I would keep the good horn
at home. The only problem is that the reason it was bought was to play
it, so just be careful. Most students can't stand playing their second
horn after they get a good one.
Jing
2005-02-07 01:14:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Tuba
I had a student that used her BachStradivarius form the day she started
in 5th grade through college (including HS marching band) and didn't
put one dent in it. A truly amazing feat. I would keep the good horn
at home. The only problem is that the reason it was bought was to play
it, so just be careful. Most students can't stand playing their second
horn after they get a good one.
Thanks for the information. My son's teacher was a professional trumpet
soloist for long time and she will test the horn before we decide to
keep it or return it. All we care about is the sound of the trumpet.
About the denting the trumpet I am not sure it will be safe even in the
house. He has promised to be careful though. But boys are not the same
as girls. At least not my boys.

Thanks again and have a good week ahead.

Jing
Saxology
2005-02-09 01:08:55 UTC
Permalink
<snip>

Is it the right horn or not.... tough question. A Strad can be configured
with many options. I got my son a Bach 200, it has the 25 lead pipe and 43
bell. It costs less and there are no options. My opinion is that until the
player can evaluate and give an opinion on the features you are really in
the dark. There are a lot of good horns out there and your son deserves one
of them. Unlike others that posted I would let your son play the horn all
they like. Mine leaves one at school and one at home so he doesn't have to
transport them back and forth daily. If you son wants to carry it.... what
the heck.... might as well get the use out of it. Accidents happen, to kids
and pros. The only difference is the quality and depth of the story that
goes with the dent!

BTW, Yamaha makes some very nice horns, well worth considering. The old
school name is still Bach but I don't put much value in that. Opinions
change with time. Conn has some very nice pro horns too. Oh, and you might
want to consider the Kanstul.... 1500A I think the model is. Try them if
available at the local music shop <<<---- easier said than done where I
live.

-Sax
Randy Replogle
2005-02-09 15:11:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Saxology
<snip>
Unlike others that posted I would let your son play the horn all
Post by Saxology
they like. Mine leaves one at school and one at home so he doesn't have to
transport them back and forth daily. If you son wants to carry it.... what
the heck.... might as well get the use out of it. Accidents happen, to kids
and pros. The only difference is the quality and depth of the story that
goes with the dent!
-Sax
Would you buy your 16 year old a new Corvette?
Randy
Jing
2005-02-09 17:11:29 UTC
Permalink
No, I will not buy a 16 year old a new Corvette. But it is different
matter for a musical instrument. My thinking is that it is clear that
my son will play the instrument for a while. I have to go to a
Stradivarius down the road and the current horn needs more work done
immediately. It could be one year or two year or at most three years
for the upgrading. Meanwhile I have to spend more money on the old horn
with less sound quality. So why not get a new horn with good quality
now. He may benefit more from a good horn than struggling with a poor
one. The frustration may dim his enthusiasm more than the money can
buy. Which in my opinion the enthusiasm is the most important factor in
the whole business of learning.

Have a nice day,

Jing
Randy Replogle
2005-02-09 17:57:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jing
No, I will not buy a 16 year old a new Corvette. But it is different
matter for a musical instrument. My thinking is that it is clear that
my son will play the instrument for a while. I have to go to a
Stradivarius down the road and the current horn needs more work done
immediately. It could be one year or two year or at most three years
for the upgrading. Meanwhile I have to spend more money on the old horn
with less sound quality. So why not get a new horn with good quality
now. He may benefit more from a good horn than struggling with a poor
one. The frustration may dim his enthusiasm more than the money can
buy. Which in my opinion the enthusiasm is the most important factor in
the whole business of learning.
Have a nice day,
Jing
It's your child and your money. You can do as you please. I, however, would
not buy a new 'vette for a 16 year old boy, diamond earrings for a teenage
girl, or a new Strad for a beginning musician.

End of lecture! :)

Randy
Saxology
2005-02-10 15:14:41 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
He may benefit more from a good horn than struggling with a poor
Post by Jing
one.
true enough!

in my opinion the enthusiasm is the most important factor in
Post by Jing
the whole business of learning.
I, too, think this is very important. Something else to consider is that
you need a horn for Marching Band at some point. I wouldn't march a fine
instrument. Not because the band doesn't deserve the best sound.... but
crap happens to marching horns! They are told to leave them in the stands,
on the field, the bus... it rains, snows, sleets, hails.... people throw
things... you name it.

Do kids have more accidents with horns? Maybe true, but if the good horn is
home most of the time and the second horn is in school your odds are better.
Watch out for the summer band camps though... killers on a horn in my
personal experience. The strad may not be the last horn ever bought either.
Piccolo trumpet? Flugel horn? Coronet? If your child likes to play, all
the horns provide a challenge and entertainment.

-Sax
Jing
2005-02-10 17:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Saxology
<snip>
I, too, think this is very important. Something else to consider is that
you need a horn for Marching Band at some point. I wouldn't march a fine
instrument. Not because the band doesn't deserve the best sound.... but
crap happens to marching horns! They are told to leave them in the stands,
on the field, the bus... it rains, snows, sleets, hails.... people throw
things... you name it.
Do kids have more accidents with horns? Maybe true, but if the good horn is
home most of the time and the second horn is in school your odds are better.
Watch out for the summer band camps though... killers on a horn in my
personal experience. The strad may not be the last horn ever bought either.
Piccolo trumpet? Flugel horn? Coronet? If your child likes to play, all
the horns provide a challenge and entertainment.
Good points taken.

I read lot of your posts last night and think your son is wonderful and
you are a great parent. How long have your son played the horns? Mine
only started last August and he is going to audition for all county
band this month. For now trumpet is the only horn he is playing. He has
played piano for 7+ years though and is still taking lessons.

Even though we will not have matching band for the next couple years we
still plan to reserve the old horn for the rough times. We only get
matching band in high school here. Thanks for your warnings about the
matching band. I can image how it look like now.

Have a nice day,

Jing
Saxology
2005-02-11 15:57:17 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Jing
I read lot of your posts last night and think your son is wonderful and
you are a great parent. How long have your son played the horns? Mine
only started last August and he is going to audition for all county
band this month. For now trumpet is the only horn he is playing. He has
played piano for 7+ years though and is still taking lessons.
Even though we will not have matching band for the next couple years we
still plan to reserve the old horn for the rough times. We only get
matching band in high school here. Thanks for your warnings about the
matching band. I can image how it look like now.
Have a nice day,
Jing
My son has played about 3.5 years now. The all-county thing is a good thing
to do. The kids have a ton of fun and even if they don't make the band the
audition experience is good. Playing for a stranger is hard to do. It
takes courage and skill. Take every audition possible just for the
experience.

Something we have around here, and I would bet you have something similar
where you are, is the solo festival. You prepare a solo and play for a
judge. Usually you have a solo, sight reading, and scales. The solo's are
graded (1 - 6) so you choose a piece that is of a proper difficulty for your
child. There is one out there for you, count on it. I would do this every
year. Again, a great experience and it gives your child another chance to
show off accomplishments. It also keeps things "fresh" by changing the
lesson focus for a few weeks. Again, great fun.

With the piano training you should see good progress on the trumpet. The
"reading", counting, scales, and such are already understood. Now the
"trumpet" part comes in. I have a daughter who plays the clarinet and she
started the piano about a year ago. The piano doesn't get as much time as
the clarinet but she still likes to play it.

You have to spend your money on something.... musical instruments and
lessons is a good way to go, in my opinion. Most of all, enjoy the music.
It keeps getting better.
-Sax

Jing
2005-02-09 04:20:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Thanks everyone who replied my question. Well we just came back from
our trumpet lesson tonight and our teacher let us to send the
Anniversary Stradivarius Professional Trumpet back and let them send us
a regular 180S-43 because the horns have different designs and we must
get the regular 180S-43. She tried the trumpet and compared the two
horns for me. I can tell the sound from the Anniversary is a little
sharper than her regular 180S-43 and the regular horn sounds much
sweeter and watering. So I am going to call the musician's friend and
get an exchange tomorrow.

Jing
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