Discussion:
Why are the el Cheapo eBay horns lousy?
(too old to reply)
Doc
2004-02-05 10:29:26 UTC
Permalink
I've seen posts assuring that these cheapy eBay horns made in India, China,
etc. are terrible, useful as lamp bases and not much else. Is this based on
having actually played them? Are they any worse than a Bundy or the like?
Could someone versed in instrument manufacturing explain what about the
construction of them makes them so bad?
William Graham
2004-02-05 10:39:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doc
I've seen posts assuring that these cheapy eBay horns made in India, China,
etc. are terrible, useful as lamp bases and not much else. Is this based on
having actually played them? Are they any worse than a Bundy or the like?
Could someone versed in instrument manufacturing explain what about the
construction of them makes them so bad?
The ones that I have seen suffer from poor workmanship and finish. If you
inspect the valves and cylinders you will see poor soldering and badly
finished valve stems, caps springs, and other parts. The solder joints on
the rest of the horn are poorly done and badly finished. On some, the valves
rattle, and/or make a clanking sound when operated, even though the caps are
tightened down snugly. Also the alignment is poor as observed by removing
the slides and operating the valves to see where they stop. Some companies
can grow out of these kinds of horns, and produce better and better products
as time goes on. I am told that Jupiter is one of these, and the horns they
are turning out today are much better than the ones they were producing ten
years ago. But then, their prices have grown right along with their
manufacturing ability, so I guess you just get what you pay for, in the long
run.
Catzz66
2004-02-05 11:48:27 UTC
Permalink
Someone donated a chinese trumpet to our church. It looked good on the outside
but was poorly in tune and the plating was already peeling off of the valves.
Someone had probably bought it for a beginner student and quickly realized it
was inadequate, so they gave it to us.
JoeGuy
2004-02-05 13:30:54 UTC
Permalink
the metals are probably cheap; but, i'd still like to see a couple. i notice
walmart sells a beginners horn for about 200.00. has any one seen it? their
generic copy of a les paul standard is interesting.
Post by Catzz66
Someone donated a chinese trumpet to our church. It looked good on the outside
but was poorly in tune and the plating was already peeling off of the valves.
Someone had probably bought it for a beginner student and quickly realized it
was inadequate, so they gave it to us.
jim hickle
2004-02-06 17:39:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoeGuy
the metals are probably cheap; but, i'd still like to see a couple. i notice
walmart sells a beginners horn for about 200.00. has any one seen it? their
generic copy of a les paul standard is interesting.
$149, including a generic practice amp. But our local music store
sells a decent Strat copy for $149. Add $80 and get a Marshall 10w
amp. When you grow out of this equipment they'll let you trade them
in for something better. Don't waste your money at Walmart.

-jim hickle
***@yahoo.com
Russ Schmidt
2004-02-05 17:36:52 UTC
Permalink
from a repair tech/store owner's viewpoint...

aside from the plating problems, lacquer problems, valve alignment problems,
poor solder work done, and inexpensive materials used in cases and every
other aspect, the BIGGEST obstacle a brass maker has to overcome is the
amount of tin and zinc mixed with the copper or bronze or whatever recipe
they use...too much tin or zinc, and red rot occurs before your eyes...too
much copper and the horn is too soft and maleable to hold a shape on a lathe
or mandrel.

I'm not a metalurgist (and I know a few lurk here and there in this
newsgroup), but if you go back 25-30 years to look at yamaha brasses, you
see the same problems that jupiter dealt with 12-15 years ago, and the same
problems the other factories are dealing with now. it all (imho) starts with
the metal...bad materials in equals bad product out.

sadly, I was shown selmer's new and exciting line of instruments at
namm...the "prelude" series looks identical to the "first act" crap sold at
costco last fall...probably made in the same plant too. the difference is
that I can buy parts for these (who would want to replace a part on crap
anyway?). my net price on trumpets, flutes and clarinets are well under
$200, so that I'm able to compete for the parents buying crap like this from
costco or walmart for their kids...doesn't matter that the smart band
directors hate this stuff, I just need to make a dollar on the sale.

words of advice from my rep (who has been around long enough to know the
score) "...don't put these in your rental fleet, and don't take returns
unless they want a better horn in its place..."

there will continue to be cheap horns made as long as there are parts of the
world where life has little or no value. people who work 96 hour weeks for
$60 a month, and factories that dump plating leftovers (heavy metals)
directly into the town's water supply.

(if there's any doubt about that topic, then ask someone about a superfund
site formerly called the getzen plant).

buy used american horns and put them in the closet for 20 years...by then
elkhart indiana will be a ghost town, and the student stuff will fetch pro
dollars on ebay.

peace out!

russ schmidt
beaverton music
beaverton, oregon
Post by Doc
I've seen posts assuring that these cheapy eBay horns made in India, China,
etc. are terrible, useful as lamp bases and not much else. Is this based on
having actually played them? Are they any worse than a Bundy or the like?
Could someone versed in instrument manufacturing explain what about the
construction of them makes them so bad?
JoeGuy
2004-02-06 02:59:31 UTC
Permalink
which hits on another point; russ. why else would any some one go through
such pains to restore a '47 martin committee, or a 1905 boston cornet, or a
1960 conn constellation, or a 1974 getzen eterns? or a 1959 olds mendez or
recording trumpet? primarily for that reason. just like a '59 les paul
flametop, they no longer make them like that anymore. sure there are a few
rare exceptions; for instance the conn vintage one, however, by and large,
the old horns are better. and worth having restored if they are in fair
condition. i'm still a firm believer in vintage horns.
Post by Russ Schmidt
from a repair tech/store owner's viewpoint...
aside from the plating problems, lacquer problems, valve alignment problems,
poor solder work done, and inexpensive materials used in cases and every
other aspect, the BIGGEST obstacle a brass maker has to overcome is the
amount of tin and zinc mixed with the copper or bronze or whatever recipe
they use...too much tin or zinc, and red rot occurs before your eyes...too
much copper and the horn is too soft and maleable to hold a shape on a lathe
or mandrel.
I'm not a metalurgist (and I know a few lurk here and there in this
newsgroup), but if you go back 25-30 years to look at yamaha brasses, you
see the same problems that jupiter dealt with 12-15 years ago, and the same
problems the other factories are dealing with now. it all (imho) starts with
the metal...bad materials in equals bad product out.
sadly, I was shown selmer's new and exciting line of instruments at
namm...the "prelude" series looks identical to the "first act" crap sold at
costco last fall...probably made in the same plant too. the difference is
that I can buy parts for these (who would want to replace a part on crap
anyway?). my net price on trumpets, flutes and clarinets are well under
$200, so that I'm able to compete for the parents buying crap like this from
costco or walmart for their kids...doesn't matter that the smart band
directors hate this stuff, I just need to make a dollar on the sale.
words of advice from my rep (who has been around long enough to know the
score) "...don't put these in your rental fleet, and don't take returns
unless they want a better horn in its place..."
there will continue to be cheap horns made as long as there are parts of the
world where life has little or no value. people who work 96 hour weeks for
$60 a month, and factories that dump plating leftovers (heavy metals)
directly into the town's water supply.
(if there's any doubt about that topic, then ask someone about a superfund
site formerly called the getzen plant).
buy used american horns and put them in the closet for 20 years...by then
elkhart indiana will be a ghost town, and the student stuff will fetch pro
dollars on ebay.
peace out!
russ schmidt
beaverton music
beaverton, oregon
Post by Doc
I've seen posts assuring that these cheapy eBay horns made in India,
China,
Post by Doc
etc. are terrible, useful as lamp bases and not much else. Is this based
on
Post by Doc
having actually played them? Are they any worse than a Bundy or the like?
Could someone versed in instrument manufacturing explain what about the
construction of them makes them so bad?
Spencer Hager
2004-02-06 11:32:27 UTC
Permalink
Joe,

I have a question for you. There was a guy here in St. Louis a couple of
years ago that came into town and all the guitar players flocked to see him.
Sorry, I don't know his name, only that he is some kind of a world renowned
builder of electric guitars. I saw him on some news piece on our local TV
station.

Well anyway, I bet you would know this man's name in a heartbeat - the story
talked about all the big name electric guitar players that have bought his
creations. These are the highest of quality hand made guitars. They are
supposed to be THE BEST.

Is a vintage guitar better than these hand made wonders of today? I have had
and played loads of vintage horns and you are right in that they are IMO
better than many/most of the pro horns massed produced today. Especially for
the money.

But, I still think my WT, or a Lawler, etc. are better than the vintage
stuff of yesteryear. Even, when you throw in the money factor. Let's take my
LA Olds Recording I just sold for $500 to someone in this NG. It was an
exceptional deal, really! It is such a nice horn, that if I were to restore
it, I would only send it to the best of the best of shops to do the work.

Let's say I send it to Brass Bow in Chicago and tell them I want the horn
restored to the MAX - no expense spared for my baby! They would check it out
and go to work and I bet I would spend at least $700 on the restoration.
That makes $1200 total investment in the horn. That is cheap for a new Pro
horn and this restored horn would smoke most of them. Not a bad value if you
have had the horn awhile and decided this is it. Your perfect match. I still
think my used WT which bought @ $1250 was a better deal!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, the 1957 Olds Mendez I just sold is another example. I sold it for $500
and it is a great looking vintage horn that the new owner will spend like an
additional $35 on to expand a few slides and he is done. This horn is for
his son and he has $535 total investment in it. That is a hell of a horn and
is better deal than most new pro horns. My understanding is that the boys
trumpet teacher (grad student from Rice University) is pretty much blown
away by the horn! For that kind of money well your vintage horn can't be
beat. But, is it better than my WT or a Lawler, etc.? I don't think so but
everyone's mileage will vary. What do you think?

Just a thought .....................

Spencer
Post by JoeGuy
which hits on another point; russ. why else would any some one go through
such pains to restore a '47 martin committee, or a 1905 boston cornet, or a
1960 conn constellation, or a 1974 getzen eterns? or a 1959 olds mendez or
recording trumpet? primarily for that reason. just like a '59 les paul
flametop, they no longer make them like that anymore. sure there are a few
rare exceptions; for instance the conn vintage one, however, by and large,
the old horns are better. and worth having restored if they are in fair
condition. i'm still a firm believer in vintage horns.
Post by Russ Schmidt
from a repair tech/store owner's viewpoint...
aside from the plating problems, lacquer problems, valve alignment
problems,
Post by Russ Schmidt
poor solder work done, and inexpensive materials used in cases and every
other aspect, the BIGGEST obstacle a brass maker has to overcome is the
amount of tin and zinc mixed with the copper or bronze or whatever recipe
they use...too much tin or zinc, and red rot occurs before your eyes...too
much copper and the horn is too soft and maleable to hold a shape on a
lathe
Post by Russ Schmidt
or mandrel.
I'm not a metalurgist (and I know a few lurk here and there in this
newsgroup), but if you go back 25-30 years to look at yamaha brasses, you
see the same problems that jupiter dealt with 12-15 years ago, and the
same
Post by Russ Schmidt
problems the other factories are dealing with now. it all (imho) starts
with
Post by Russ Schmidt
the metal...bad materials in equals bad product out.
sadly, I was shown selmer's new and exciting line of instruments at
namm...the "prelude" series looks identical to the "first act" crap sold
at
Post by Russ Schmidt
costco last fall...probably made in the same plant too. the difference is
that I can buy parts for these (who would want to replace a part on crap
anyway?). my net price on trumpets, flutes and clarinets are well under
$200, so that I'm able to compete for the parents buying crap like this
from
Post by Russ Schmidt
costco or walmart for their kids...doesn't matter that the smart band
directors hate this stuff, I just need to make a dollar on the sale.
words of advice from my rep (who has been around long enough to know the
score) "...don't put these in your rental fleet, and don't take returns
unless they want a better horn in its place..."
there will continue to be cheap horns made as long as there are parts of
the
Post by Russ Schmidt
world where life has little or no value. people who work 96 hour weeks for
$60 a month, and factories that dump plating leftovers (heavy metals)
directly into the town's water supply.
(if there's any doubt about that topic, then ask someone about a superfund
site formerly called the getzen plant).
buy used american horns and put them in the closet for 20 years...by then
elkhart indiana will be a ghost town, and the student stuff will fetch pro
dollars on ebay.
peace out!
russ schmidt
beaverton music
beaverton, oregon
Post by Doc
I've seen posts assuring that these cheapy eBay horns made in India,
China,
Post by Doc
etc. are terrible, useful as lamp bases and not much else. Is this based
on
Post by Doc
having actually played them? Are they any worse than a Bundy or the
like?
Post by Russ Schmidt
Post by Doc
Could someone versed in instrument manufacturing explain what about the
construction of them makes them so bad?
JoeGuy
2004-02-07 03:32:20 UTC
Permalink
very tempting. flip oakes is a friend of mine, and i love the new lawler
committee. i may even have heard of the guitarmaker you've mentioned. there
was a guy from florida who made guitars for jerry garcia. he eventually blew
himself up in a mishap making 4th of july fireworks in his shop. true story;
i'm not sure if the same person.
i have to say; i would opt for the mendez, recording trumpet, vintage
martin, or conn constellation. particularly if restored to brand new
condition. perhaps i am a purist, a sentimentalist, whatever you will. i
have for years wanted a new horn, even after i could long afford one. i
found the, "artist," quality selmer/bachs, or yamahas not worth the price,
or not as good as my 30 year old getzen eterna. imo. in the last two or
three years, however, i have seen a sharp increase in the quality of new
horns manufactured by these companies. and, i feel, you have a point, that
new instrument quality is better than it had been.
now, my opinion is, the instruments you mentioned, the classic olds, are to
good an instrument for a teenager to take to high school football games, and
leave unattended in a bandroom. even if only purchased at 500.00. i
personally wouldn't let a kid have one; unless he showed unusual promise as
an artist. don't you agree? if they've survived 40 years, and are still
fully restorable, they have a good deal of antique value. i believe you'll
see it in another 20 years.
Post by Spencer Hager
Joe,
I have a question for you. There was a guy here in St. Louis a couple of
years ago that came into town and all the guitar players flocked to see him.
Sorry, I don't know his name, only that he is some kind of a world renowned
builder of electric guitars. I saw him on some news piece on our local TV
station.
Well anyway, I bet you would know this man's name in a heartbeat - the story
talked about all the big name electric guitar players that have bought his
creations. These are the highest of quality hand made guitars. They are
supposed to be THE BEST.
Is a vintage guitar better than these hand made wonders of today? I have had
and played loads of vintage horns and you are right in that they are IMO
better than many/most of the pro horns massed produced today. Especially for
the money.
But, I still think my WT, or a Lawler, etc. are better than the vintage
stuff of yesteryear. Even, when you throw in the money factor. Let's take my
LA Olds Recording I just sold for $500 to someone in this NG. It was an
exceptional deal, really! It is such a nice horn, that if I were to restore
it, I would only send it to the best of the best of shops to do the work.
Let's say I send it to Brass Bow in Chicago and tell them I want the horn
restored to the MAX - no expense spared for my baby! They would check it out
and go to work and I bet I would spend at least $700 on the restoration.
That makes $1200 total investment in the horn. That is cheap for a new Pro
horn and this restored horn would smoke most of them. Not a bad value if you
have had the horn awhile and decided this is it. Your perfect match. I still
Now, the 1957 Olds Mendez I just sold is another example. I sold it for $500
and it is a great looking vintage horn that the new owner will spend like an
additional $35 on to expand a few slides and he is done. This horn is for
his son and he has $535 total investment in it. That is a hell of a horn and
is better deal than most new pro horns. My understanding is that the boys
trumpet teacher (grad student from Rice University) is pretty much blown
away by the horn! For that kind of money well your vintage horn can't be
beat. But, is it better than my WT or a Lawler, etc.? I don't think so but
everyone's mileage will vary. What do you think?
Just a thought .....................
Spencer
Post by JoeGuy
which hits on another point; russ. why else would any some one go through
such pains to restore a '47 martin committee, or a 1905 boston cornet,
or
Post by Spencer Hager
a
Post by JoeGuy
1960 conn constellation, or a 1974 getzen eterns? or a 1959 olds mendez or
recording trumpet? primarily for that reason. just like a '59 les paul
flametop, they no longer make them like that anymore. sure there are a few
rare exceptions; for instance the conn vintage one, however, by and large,
the old horns are better. and worth having restored if they are in fair
condition. i'm still a firm believer in vintage horns.
Post by Russ Schmidt
from a repair tech/store owner's viewpoint...
aside from the plating problems, lacquer problems, valve alignment
problems,
Post by Russ Schmidt
poor solder work done, and inexpensive materials used in cases and every
other aspect, the BIGGEST obstacle a brass maker has to overcome is the
amount of tin and zinc mixed with the copper or bronze or whatever
recipe
Post by JoeGuy
Post by Russ Schmidt
they use...too much tin or zinc, and red rot occurs before your
eyes...too
Post by JoeGuy
Post by Russ Schmidt
much copper and the horn is too soft and maleable to hold a shape on a
lathe
Post by Russ Schmidt
or mandrel.
I'm not a metalurgist (and I know a few lurk here and there in this
newsgroup), but if you go back 25-30 years to look at yamaha brasses,
you
Post by JoeGuy
Post by Russ Schmidt
see the same problems that jupiter dealt with 12-15 years ago, and the
same
Post by Russ Schmidt
problems the other factories are dealing with now. it all (imho) starts
with
Post by Russ Schmidt
the metal...bad materials in equals bad product out.
sadly, I was shown selmer's new and exciting line of instruments at
namm...the "prelude" series looks identical to the "first act" crap sold
at
Post by Russ Schmidt
costco last fall...probably made in the same plant too. the difference
is
Post by JoeGuy
Post by Russ Schmidt
that I can buy parts for these (who would want to replace a part on crap
anyway?). my net price on trumpets, flutes and clarinets are well under
$200, so that I'm able to compete for the parents buying crap like this
from
Post by Russ Schmidt
costco or walmart for their kids...doesn't matter that the smart band
directors hate this stuff, I just need to make a dollar on the sale.
words of advice from my rep (who has been around long enough to know the
score) "...don't put these in your rental fleet, and don't take returns
unless they want a better horn in its place..."
there will continue to be cheap horns made as long as there are parts of
the
Post by Russ Schmidt
world where life has little or no value. people who work 96 hour weeks
for
Post by JoeGuy
Post by Russ Schmidt
$60 a month, and factories that dump plating leftovers (heavy metals)
directly into the town's water supply.
(if there's any doubt about that topic, then ask someone about a
superfund
Post by JoeGuy
Post by Russ Schmidt
site formerly called the getzen plant).
buy used american horns and put them in the closet for 20 years...by
then
Post by JoeGuy
Post by Russ Schmidt
elkhart indiana will be a ghost town, and the student stuff will fetch
pro
Post by JoeGuy
Post by Russ Schmidt
dollars on ebay.
peace out!
russ schmidt
beaverton music
beaverton, oregon
Post by Doc
I've seen posts assuring that these cheapy eBay horns made in India,
China,
Post by Doc
etc. are terrible, useful as lamp bases and not much else. Is this
based
Post by JoeGuy
Post by Russ Schmidt
on
Post by Doc
having actually played them? Are they any worse than a Bundy or the
like?
Post by Russ Schmidt
Post by Doc
Could someone versed in instrument manufacturing explain what about
the
Post by JoeGuy
Post by Russ Schmidt
Post by Doc
construction of them makes them so bad?
Doc
2004-02-07 12:55:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Russ Schmidt
from a repair tech/store owner's viewpoint...
aside from the plating problems, lacquer problems, valve alignment problems,
poor solder work done, and inexpensive materials used in cases and every
other aspect, the BIGGEST obstacle a brass maker has to overcome is the
amount of tin and zinc mixed with the copper or bronze or whatever recipe
they use...
Thanks, just the kind of explanation I was looking for.
Ruben
2004-02-07 23:58:58 UTC
Permalink
Well if they just use any brass... but I can imagine that you can just order
wind instrument quality brass from a few big sheetmetal factories. There are
hundreds of brass instrument makers in the world and I don't think they all
mix their own brass.
Btw, I read somewhere that Schilke used shell casing brass for their
trumpets.
Post by Russ Schmidt
from a repair tech/store owner's viewpoint...
aside from the plating problems, lacquer problems, valve alignment problems,
poor solder work done, and inexpensive materials used in cases and every
other aspect, the BIGGEST obstacle a brass maker has to overcome is the
amount of tin and zinc mixed with the copper or bronze or whatever recipe
they use...too much tin or zinc, and red rot occurs before your eyes...too
much copper and the horn is too soft and maleable to hold a shape on a lathe
or mandrel.
I'm not a metalurgist (and I know a few lurk here and there in this
newsgroup), but if you go back 25-30 years to look at yamaha brasses, you
see the same problems that jupiter dealt with 12-15 years ago, and the same
problems the other factories are dealing with now. it all (imho) starts with
the metal...bad materials in equals bad product out.
sadly, I was shown selmer's new and exciting line of instruments at
namm...the "prelude" series looks identical to the "first act" crap sold at
costco last fall...probably made in the same plant too. the difference is
that I can buy parts for these (who would want to replace a part on crap
anyway?). my net price on trumpets, flutes and clarinets are well under
$200, so that I'm able to compete for the parents buying crap like this from
costco or walmart for their kids...doesn't matter that the smart band
directors hate this stuff, I just need to make a dollar on the sale.
words of advice from my rep (who has been around long enough to know the
score) "...don't put these in your rental fleet, and don't take returns
unless they want a better horn in its place..."
there will continue to be cheap horns made as long as there are parts of the
world where life has little or no value. people who work 96 hour weeks for
$60 a month, and factories that dump plating leftovers (heavy metals)
directly into the town's water supply.
(if there's any doubt about that topic, then ask someone about a superfund
site formerly called the getzen plant).
buy used american horns and put them in the closet for 20 years...by then
elkhart indiana will be a ghost town, and the student stuff will fetch pro
dollars on ebay.
peace out!
russ schmidt
beaverton music
beaverton, oregon
Post by Doc
I've seen posts assuring that these cheapy eBay horns made in India,
China,
Post by Doc
etc. are terrible, useful as lamp bases and not much else. Is this based
on
Post by Doc
having actually played them? Are they any worse than a Bundy or the like?
Could someone versed in instrument manufacturing explain what about the
construction of them makes them so bad?
Tim Priddy
2004-02-08 00:56:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruben
Well if they just use any brass... but I can imagine that you can just
order wind instrument quality brass from a few big sheetmetal factories.
There are hundreds of brass instrument makers in the world and I don't think
they all mix their own brass. Btw, I read somewhere that Schilke used shell
casing brass for their trumpets.
Never heard that one...I was always under the assumption that Selmer were the
only ones to use it (Mark V, right?).

Regards,
--
J. Timothy Priddy

***@chartermi.net
Lead, Ride, Side--All Styles--Educator, Arranger, Sight-Reader
Central Michigan Region
Catzz66
2004-02-08 12:04:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruben
Btw, I read somewhere that Schilke used shell
Post by Ruben
casing brass for their trumpets
That may be an urban legend. I heard the same thing at various times regarding
the Paris made Besson and early Bach trumpets. I wonder if it is really true,
and if so, what difference it would make. You'ld think yellow brass is yellow
brass, but I imagine it is nowhere near that simple.
Dave Lee
2004-02-08 19:24:34 UTC
Permalink
I'll tell you what, when I was stationed in Korea, I watched the kids retrieve
enough 50 cal brass to make a dozen trumpets. We allowed them to since they
made a buck doing it. The rural areas of Korea were just so poor, anything
seemed to help.
I remember firing across a paddy that was a firing range, when up pops a
mamason picking rice...........CEASE FIRE!!

She was fine, and actually mad she was not allowed to continue.
William Graham
2004-02-09 01:38:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Catzz66
Post by Ruben
Btw, I read somewhere that Schilke used shell
Post by Ruben
casing brass for their trumpets
That may be an urban legend. I heard the same thing at various times regarding
the Paris made Besson and early Bach trumpets. I wonder if it is really true,
and if so, what difference it would make. You'ld think yellow brass is yellow
brass, but I imagine it is nowhere near that simple.
This reminds me of the urban legend that was going around back in the late
50's when I was in the US Navy.....Gillette bought the Battleship Missouri
to use for razor blades.....Who knows? - It might be true......
Dave Lee
2004-02-09 02:06:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Graham
in the late
50's when I was in the US Navy.....Gillette bought the Battleship Missouri
to use for razor blades.....Who knows? - It might be true....
I don't know, but thats a hell of a lot of blades, no??
corsair48
2004-02-09 16:58:37 UTC
Permalink
The Missouri is now a floating memorial in Pearl Harbor...

John
Post by Dave Lee
Post by William Graham
in the late
50's when I was in the US Navy.....Gillette bought the Battleship Missouri
to use for razor blades.....Who knows? - It might be true....
I don't know, but thats a hell of a lot of blades, no??
Dave Lee
2004-02-09 18:43:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by corsair48
he Missouri is now a floating memorial in Pearl Harbor...
John
It most certainly is, and a fitting tribute. My uncle sailed under Adm. Halsey,
before Pearl I believe, not quite sure. I also am not sure if his boat was the
USS Blue then, or another. A Chief Gunners mate. He died some 8 years ago, but
always spoke fondly of his service time. I often think he wished he stayed in,
rather than come back home to this deadend mill town.
Doc
2004-02-10 09:04:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Catzz66
Post by Ruben
Btw, I read somewhere that Schilke used shell
Post by Ruben
casing brass for their trumpets
That may be an urban legend.
I don't think so. A retired Colonel & WWII vet who played in a dance band I
was in duirng high school said his Selmer was made from French shell
casings. It's not at all implausible. Keep in mind that back then, raw
material was hard to come by as production for many things was cut way back
or halted to make munitions. When it was over, there was a lot of material
tied up in unused implements of war. I would imagine those items that were
easily recyled were.
William Graham
2004-02-11 06:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doc
Post by Catzz66
Post by Ruben
Btw, I read somewhere that Schilke used shell
Post by Ruben
casing brass for their trumpets
That may be an urban legend.
I don't think so. A retired Colonel & WWII vet who played in a dance band I
was in duirng high school said his Selmer was made from French shell
casings. It's not at all implausible. Keep in mind that back then, raw
material was hard to come by as production for many things was cut way back
or halted to make munitions. When it was over, there was a lot of material
tied up in unused implements of war. I would imagine those items that were
easily recyled were.
There is nothing wrong with, "shell casing brass". If it has the right mix
of copper & zinc or tin or whatever, it will be the same as any other brass
that's made for trumpet manufacture. It's just like "Mexican silver", or,
"Black Hills Gold". These are elements, and no one can tell the difference
between two atoms of gold, no matter where they came from. I can barely
believe you (or any trumpet player) can tell the difference between trumpets
that are made out of completely different materials. I would be astounded if
someone could tell the difference between two trumpets, if one was made out
of, "shell casing brass", and the other out of a slightly different
copper-zinc/tin mix.

Chris Kralles
2004-02-07 05:24:10 UTC
Permalink
I recently bought a Band Now trumpet (less than $200)from the
Brasswind for a beginer. It came complete with a mouth piece and case.
It was a piece of crap and I returned it for a refund. One would
expect that for that money you could at least play the horn
independent of intonation, stuffyness, and life. The valves were
sticking due to a poor fit and could not be remedied. The third valve
had to be pulled to the up position even after trying multiple wash
and oil. I can't believe a company of their stature could consider
selling a piece of junk such as this. The child was major bummed out.
We found him a used yahmaha which played great and built like a tank
for $250.00. You pay for what you get!
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